I am allergic to formulas that make you look like everyone else. You are more interesting than that.
— Kerri Twigg

Episode Summary

What’s up everyone! In this episode, I talk with Kerri Twigg, career coach and job search strategist. Kerri is the founder of Career Stories, which helps people use their stories to land ideal work and grow their careers. She’s here today to share her own journey and how she’s impacting lives with her coaching and courses.

Kerri started as a drama teacher, then moved into community art which fueled her love of helping people, building programs, and solving problems. She was a career transition coach for three years before starting her own business.  

Listen as Kerri shares her interesting experience in this unique coaching field, how she built Career Stories and incorporated the teaching component, and how she generated 400 sign-ups for her course. We also dig into her Career Mapping Masterclass and how she manages to run her workshops monthly. Enjoy!

+ Episode Transcript

Kerri Twigg: I just got some attention from people. So the consistency of giving a lot of resources, talking a lot, interacting with people on LinkedIn, that just caused me to grow. So my brand grew. My stuff got shared so much that like I became a LinkedIn top voice. So you know, out of the 610 million people using Linkedin, I was in the top 10.

Janelle Allen: Welcome to level up your course where we pull back the curtain on what it takes to create learning that transforms lives. You will hear stories from business owners like you who share their success and their struggles. This is not where you come to hear passive income myths, friend. This is where you learn the truth about building a profitable learning platform. I am your host, Janelle Allen, and this is today's episode.

JA: What's up everyone? Today I am speaking with Kerri Twigg, career coach and job search strategist. Carrie is the founder of CareerStories.com and she's also the creator of several courses including a career mapping course and a masterclass. We're going to dig into her story, work, and her course. Kerri, welcome to the show.

KT: Hey there. Great to be here.

JA: I'm excited to chat with you. I found you from listening to Tara McMillan's podcast and you had an episode with her and I was like, oh, I got to get her on the show. So we are going to get into all of that good stuff. But first and foremost, we're going to kick things off with the rapid five. It's a tradition on the show. Five quick questions to help listeners get to know you. Ready?

KT: Ready.

JA: All right. Number one is easy. What did you have for breakfast?

KT: I had peanut butter toast.

JA: Okay. Number two. What song or album is on rotation for you lately?

KT: Oh man. It's like this shanty stuff. I think her name is Sharon Paul. And Lizzo! And Lizzo.

JA: Nice balance there. I love it. I feel like I just learned a ton about you just with that question. All right. Number three is a very serious question, so we're going to just a prepare for it. The Zombie apocalypse has hit, it's real. You have six minutes to grab three essential items, not people. All of your people are okay. Six minutes to grab three items. What do you pick?

KT: Oh Man. Okay. My Jean Jacket. A notebook and a pencil.

JA: Okay. I could see how the pencil could help you document and also double as a weapon. If you need it to, yeah. T

KT: The jacket I've had since like the nineties so I need it.

JA: Yeah, for comfort. It's going to be some anxiety and panicking and it's like the lionesses blanket almost for the Zombie apocalypse.

KT: Yeah. Heal wounds. Carry food in it.

JA: I got it. Okay. Okay. Number four. If you were not doing the work that you're doing now, what would you be doing?

KT: Oh, probably what I assumed before, but just being a drama teacher.

JA: . Okay. Last one. What is the hardest lesson you have learned as an entrepreneur so far?

KT: So many lessons. I think the like, I can't do it all myself is the big lesson. Yeah. JA: That is a big one, isn't it?

KT: I'm still learning it. Yeah. Believe it.

JA: Because we resist it, right? We're like, oh, I got it.

KT: Yeah. Slowly.

JA: Yeah. It's a good one. It's a good one. All right. Thank you for answering that. That was fun. I feel like I learned some about you. Hopefully the listeners did as well. So where are you from?

KT: I'm in Winnipeg, which is in Canada. Yeah, in the prairies. Yeah. Flat, flat. Flat. Where are you?

JA: : I'm in Chicago. I thought I heard the Canadian.

KT: Oh yeah. I don't say "eh" but yeah, it'll come up.

JA: And you mentioned in the rapid five that you were a drama teacher and now you are a career coach. I would never put those two together. So I am curious, how did you get here? How did you come to do the work that you're doing now?

KT: Well I actually think I'm a drama teacher in disguise. Cause I think career coaching, I think it is a big drama class, right? If you think about like a resume is like when you get your character you have to figure out like what their action is, what the audience wants, where you want to take them, what your character, who they are in it. So that feels like a slash of playwriting.

JA: Okay. All the world's a stage Shakespeare. I got it.

KT: And interview prep is just scene preparation, right? So who, what character am I playing? What do I want to get out of the other person? I'm rehearsing my lines, I know my intention. So I still feel like I'm just doing it with a purpose, to answer your question. So I worked as drama teacher for a long time, moved into like community arts. So to start free community, our programs in different communities that maybe needed, needed more stuff going on for them. And while I enjoyed a lot of that work, I also was crawling about money like all the time. Like I had an M.Ed and I had a BA. So I was like, I have education, why am I making like no money doing this?

And then I was like, I led myself through this activity that was like a playwriting trick to help me figure out what was the work that I was really proud of and where I found my joy. And I found out that I really loved helping people and I really loved building programs and I really liked solving problems for people. And when I looked at what jobs I could, it was a tie really between like education, social work or human resources. And I went for the one that I thought would pay the most because I gotta eat. So I got like a HR certificate. And I thought my first job would be like working as a like HR person. And I actually landed a job at an HR firm in career transition or in outplacement.

Do you know what outplacement is?

JA: No, I have no idea.

KT: So a company, when they're letting someone go would call, I'm me. Say we're going to let Tony go at two o'clock on Tuesday and I would show up. At like one 30 coach, the manager how to deliver the news. He would let Tony go and I would be the first person that Tony met after he found out he lost his job.

JA: Wait a minute. Wait. Does this happen? I mean, is this just in Canada everywhere?

KT: No, it's everywhere.

JA: I don't think I've ever heard of that happening in the U.S. Okay.

KT: So the company I worked for, that's all they did. So at first I just coordinated those meetings and then they noticed they're like, oh, she can teach and coach. And so then they trained me to be a career transition coach. So for three years I met thousands of people who had lost their job and I'd meet them the day of and then the company would pay for them to get the career coaching to figure out what they could do next and then land that job.

JA: Wow.

KT: I know. Yeah. So I did that for three years and what I found was I kept wanting to bring drama and story and like other parts that weren't really are really part of like our corporate package that we would offer people. So I left and started own business doing it. So that's what I do now.

JA: I'm still in a little bit in shock that that's a real thing I have never in my life heard -- usually, you know, you get the box and...

KT: Oh, the box still comes. Sometimes I'm carrying the box or me and the manager, we would talk about how the person would pack up their things if I would do it with them or sometimes they were allowed to return to their desk. So we would talk about how they would exit and who would pack the things. Yeah. So everyone listening, Janell is in shock and I want to know a little bit more.

JA: o everyone listening, Janell is in shock and I want to know a little bit more before moving on. So are they receptive to the coaching after it? Cause I mean if you just got fired, there's a myriad of emotions that could come out.

KT: Yeah. So some people are in like complete shock and they don't even talk. And again for me, I'm like, it's acting, it goes back to drama. So my role is there's a person here who's just experienced news, they were not expecting. And my job is to help them kinda cope with the news and get out safely and have a plan for tomorrow, right? So that would be my intention. So if I went in and they were completely quiet and in shock, I would like simply introduce myself and say, you don't need to talk today, but you know, when you feel ready to go, this is how it's going to go down, right? So you can't return to your desk, you'll have to come back later.

Like, so I would give them that. Some people are just weeping and usually job loss happens when people are not doing well at their job because they have stresses elsewhere in their life. So they'd just be like, I just got divorced or I just lost a baby or I like my mom just died or you know, so they would be in a place where they would share and I would listen, you know, or hug if they allowed. And some people were angry. Like I had steel toed boots thrown at me. Who are you? Who do you think you are? And I'm like, uh, I'm a really smiley person. So I try and down my smile.

JA: Like, hey, you just got fired! How are --

KT: So somewhere just like I'm not talking to you and like this is crap and I'm getting a lawyer. And I would go, okay, my job is just make sure you're getting out safely into like, do you have someone to talk to? And for those people I would just help them exit and maybe call them the next day and see if they were interested in meeting.

JA: Wow. Yeah.

KT: And you're also checking for like if someone's going to commit suicide, yeah. You're looking for those signs too, right? So making sure that they have someone to talk to and making sure that they have a plan for the rest of the day and the plan for the next day. Which is why you never do it on a Friday if anyone's HR. That's why, because a lot of those resources that people need are not available on the weekend.

JA: Really? See, I thought that you always fire somebody on a Friday.

KT: No. Cause if you do it like, Tuesdays are really good Wednesdays are okay.

JA: That's a whole different podcasts everybody.

KT: And then if you need to go, like if you want to go, you know, get your notice reviewed by a lawyer or if you want to like assess, you need to go to the bank. All those things are open. It's just harder to do on the weekend.

JA: Yeah. Huh. Okay.

KT: I know I still do it. Yeah. Just locally for some nonprofits than I am their outplacement person.

JA: I mean, on one hand I'm shocked that this is a thing, but I love it. I love that there's that transition period and well, just the awareness by the company that hey, this is a shock. This is a big change and we need someone to help this person usher out. That's the sense of a feeling of care, right? Which is why I was like, wait, this is a thing because there are so many companies that don't think about this. You're fired and it is on a Friday and have a great life.

KT: Yeah. So I think letting people go and firing are different. So most of these would be like not for cause, right? Maybe a performance, but you know, I would have like CEOs or executives where the board was just going in a different direction. They had been there 20 years. They were grateful for the work the person had done, but they couldn't keep them anymore for the sake of the company. And it also keeps the reputation of the company intact, right? They let me go, but they gave me this person who's helping me to figure out, you know what I need to do next. Yeah. And it doesn't cost that much. So like to give someone a one month program like, so we call it onsite when you're On Site for the notification for an onsite and then four coaching sessions, which usually gets to like a resume interview prep and a networking plan is you should like $2,500. So in the scheme of things like pretty small.

JA: That's just so caring. . I love that. Okay. Yeah, I really do. I love it. I know. All right, so you did that for three years. And then you transitioned. So when you made that transition, I'm curious, did you already have people who were wanting to work with you? In other words, did you already have clients that weren't the company that you were working with?

KT: No. So I kind of skipped over. So when I left the firm I had to like do not compete, so I couldn't advertise that I was doing the work. So I got a government job. So I was working for the government and then just posting on linkedin about job search stuff because I was like, I'll just build it up. But within about four days of leaving the firm, I had someone call who was an HR director who or I had helped her like transition out some people and she called and said, I heard you left that company. I would really love to hire you independently to work with my husband. So my first clients where a lot of HR directors' husbands, a bunch of Dads.

JA: He needs a job!

KT: So some it was a job or he's really unhappy and he won't listen to me. But I trust you because like part of the outplacement package is I would give reports to the person who let the person go. So I would call the HR director and say they came to their meeting, they have an interview and I wouldn't say what we talked about or where they landed. So they got to know me and the way I was coaching and encouraging their clients. So I had people who knew about me when I started.

JA: Yeah, I was going to say, even though it is such a shock when you're let go, that position that you had, it had to lead to a lot of trust building, you know, helping people transition. And I mean it's such a tumultuous time and then to have someone to guide you through that has to build a lot of trust. Yeah. So you know, you got that first call and then what, how did it feel to take that leap? You know, doing it independently?

KT: Yeah. She called and I was like, really? You want to? Okay, yeah, but I'm just like, I have to build a program. I can't do the same thing I was doing at the firm. Like that was their program. So I had to build my own and I was like, what's my specialty going to be like, I can't just be a general career coach. So then I went for the story angle. I'm like, well, I'll just use my theater background and I'll just say I help people figure out their stories, which is true and what I was doing anyhow, right? So it felt great, but it blew up really quick. I lucked out in that the way that I talk about careers and the advice that I give, and I was doing it mostly on LinkedIn, no one else was talking the way that I was talking about careers.

So it got bigger than me. Very, very quick.

JA: Yeah. I mean we do connect to story and you know, even when we started be interviewing and I said those two things don't go together. And then you explained it. It was like, oh yeah, they do. Yeah. So I can definitely understand how -- and also when you hear the way that most people talk about career coaching, it just sounds kind of boring to be honest.

KT: Yeah, right. Let's figure out what your attributes are, your skills.

JA: Okay. So when did you start incorporating courses, programs, webinars? How did the teaching component connect?

KT: So for about the first 18 months, I was two timing. So had the government job and was doing this on the side when my government salary matched what I was bringing in coaching. I went independent and I think it took me about a year to start building courses. So, oh, I found I was having the same conversations with people over and over. Yeah, about like interview preparation, just like the common things that everyone goes through. So I was like, why don't I just like put it in a course? So I put together resources and started to put some courses together and like it's not even that long ago. It feels like I've been doing it forever, but I also come like I have an M.Ed. So I come from education, so it feels really natural to incorporate teaching. First it was just like a big long program that people had to do the whole thing. And then I had the idea, I'm like, well maybe people just want to do like a one off with me. So I started to do these monthly career master classes as a membership and those are great because I'm creating content anyhow, so I started to add those. So I do two courses a month on like for people like just on different aspects of managing your career and your job search.

JA: I love that. So before we dig into your offers, I just want to highlight as any longterm listeners know I was going to come back to this, that you created courses because you realized through your services that you were repeating the same information, which is always a clue, hey there's a need for this information and it's coming up over and over. So this would be a good thing to put into a course or program or some type of digital learning assets. So for anyone listening, there's a lot of people who listen to the show who are still struggling with how to start, what my idea is. Services are a great way to discover parts of what you do. That would be great for a course in what people have a need for. So I love that. I just wanted to call that out.

Okay, so you have a few offers. I mean, I know that initially I mentioned your career mapping course, which it looks like it started off as a Webinar and then turned into a course. Did I make the correct assumption there?

KT: Well it is. It's so many that when I would say is a masterclass, so I have classes and for me classes are just like, we dig into one topic. And classes are usually like 25 bucks and we just dig in deep. So I have one class on doing career maps and it's one of my best, like I think it's one of the best classes I've made. It's the one I get like stopped on the street for you for like I took it to change my life but unlocked something like for ten years.

JA: Wow, I love that.

KT: Yeah. And then I made a second class where I'm now teaching career coaches how to coach. And so I did a class on how to do career maps with clients, so how to lead them, who they're appropriate for, what people get stuck on. Yeah. What mixed art materials to use. So I have two versions of the class, one for career coach and one for someone to just lead themselves.

JA: Okay. Taking that next step. Let's talk about the career mapping master class. I want to start there because you said this is the one that you get asked about the most and people comment, and it's very transformational. Where did the idea for this class come from?

KT: When I was working at that HR firm, I had a client come in and we were talking kind of in circles about her career history and I kept on saying like, this is what I see, do you see this? And asking questions and she couldn't see it and I was like, okay, I'm going to get some markers. I got some markers and some paper and I'm like, let's just draw it out and we start to draw. I was like, so let's draw up this job and what did you do there? And I asked her some questions and would you like connections between jobs. And then she was like, I see it, I see it now. And it allowed her to see what was holding her back in her career in some patterns that weren't serving her well. And the only way to get to it was through drawing. So when I worked with clients, I would sometimes do career maps if it worked. Like I started to use it as a tool and then I thought I'll just lead like I think I could do a class because a lot of people feel stuck and they don't know where to go. And it's a little bit easier than answering like a questionnaire. So I was like, I'll just lead this class. And that one actually is huge because at first I led that one for free. Like I just was like, anyone wants to come. The first Webinar I tried to run a year before I had one person show up and the kind of software I had allowed you to see how many people. So he knew the only one.

JA: Glad you do it, you did the Webinar?

KT: I should be charging 30,000 right? Just kidding.

JA: Okay, so you took out the test. Is there anything else that you, that you changed?

KT: Yeah, I did.

JA: No, I love that because you know what, I have had so many conversations with people who are like, only two people showed up. I'm just going to cancel. And I'm like, no, don't cancel. This is where you start. This is the seed.

KT: Yeah, I did it. I lead it and then I was like, well this part was where I was going to have a conversation, so I think we're gonna end a little bit earlier, but I'm like, but since I'm here do you have any questions for me? And it ended up being like a mini coaching call for him. So then fast forward like a year later I offer this free course and then I had over 400 people sign up for this course. Like the free version, right? And I was like, oh I can have an audience for this. Right. And I didn't even have the Webinar. It was a mess. Cause the webinar program I had only allowed like 200 people.

JA: Be careful what you ask for, see.

KT: And not everyone comes, right. So right. I think like 230 tried to get in or something, but like a lot registered. So they ran it as like a Freebie and then I was like it's free for this amount of time and then I put a price tag on it.

JA: Okay. So I want to ask what changed with your business or how you were marketing to go from having just one person to 400 people sign up?

KT: From the time of like just talking on Linkedin and having the other job,I just got some attention from people. So the consistency of giving a lot of resources, talking a lot, interacting with people on linkedin. That just caused me to grow. So my brand grew. My stuff got shared so much that like I became a linkedin top voice. So you know out of the 610 million people using Linkedin, I was in the top 10 writing about workplace management and I was the only like non CEO. Like it's just me, right? No working out of an office off of my bathroom. Everybody else is wearing suits and winning. So what else? Job Scan named me like the number one career coach to follow on Linkedin when I just had like, I dunno, 700 followers or something. So that blew up. So it was getting recognized by places and I have a unique voice in this field that people haven't heard before that really resonates with them if the traditional career coaching doesn't work for them.

JA: So for the bonus segment, we're going to come back and talk about some of the things that you were doing on linkedin because one of the things that I tell people all the time is find out where your audience is. For you, Linkedin was perfect. And begin to dig in there, you know, sharing valuable content, finding out what some of their problems are. So I want to come back and dig into that

So career mapping, master class, 400 registrants. Then you said, okay, this is a thing, I'm gonna make it a paid product. And I know you have an education background, but was there anything about the process of, okay now I'm creating something that people are paying for that kind of adjusted how you approached? In other words, how did you sit down to approach building the last, and then were there any questions that you had? Were there any challenges?

KT: Oh boy. Not I guess for that one because I'm drawing it like I should have had a big board or something to like lean on instead of like drawing on a piece of paper and then holding it up. But what I did is I just lead it as if I was in a classroom leading an art making workshop. So I just sat on the floor of my living room like with a piece of paper and everyone came on and I was like, get comfy, grab your pieces of paper, grab your markers. And then the first thing that we're going to do is draw out your most recent job. And it can be any shape or any size that you want. You can draw a symbol, it could be different colors, but we're going to start by just drawing out that. So I just let it as if I was in a room of people. Like it was an art class. It was there that I learned like managing like comments from people while leading like that's an art. So I think I had to learn a little bit more of that technique. But in terms of teaching it, like my first degree is like drama and education, which is, I wasn't teach people to be actors. I was teaching people how to learn different things through drama. So drumming means to do, so I would teach things on like the water cycle or like, oh, like a red river flood. Like different things in classes where I would use drama as the technique to teach something else. And I always teach in a way where people are doing with me. I'm not, I don't lecture. Yeah.

JA: Yeah. I just realized you're helping people too step into their story.

KT: Oh yeah. That's what it is.

JA: And I can see how your background in drama and the way that you describe it as a story, that's why it resonates. Yeah, I love that. I love that.

One of the things that you said made me think about a conversation that I had with a guy named Lee who he goes around and he helps organizations too get clear on what they do. But we had a great conversation that I've written about where you have different modes that you go through when you're teaching, especially online, but really in any modality where you are cycling through teaching slash training mode, facilitation mode and mentor mode. And there's different skills for each of those. And I imagine for you, because you said you realize, oh, there's comments that's kind of getting into, okay, I have to facilitate all of these questions and everything. So there's an adjustment there for you. But I imagine with your monthly masterclass that this comes up moving in different modes. And so I want to get into that. First of all, the monthly offer. When did that come about and why did it come about?

KT: So came out right after I did that first class cause I was like, oh I bet -- like if there's this much interest I could probably run this every month also to work with me. I usually have like a five month waiting list just to work with me. I know. So I'm very, very blessed and so I knew that there was people who could benefit from digging into something deeper than what I can do in like a linkedin post who needed the service and the information now. So I was like I'll just offer this as like a low entry fee way to have some access to me. So right after that I just went, it's the career master class and if you sign up now you can get, you know, the career mapping class for free and the next two are going to be, and I can't remember what they were, but I had like the next two classes planned and just made it like a membership.

JA: Yeah. Okay. Cool. So what is the structure like in the masterclass? What happens?

KT: So I do two classes a month and they're on different topics and usually they start with me lecturing a little bit about it, and then I go, here are some things to do, and there's some interaction where I ask questions [inaudible] and then I give them like homework to do. And then usually the last 15 or 20 minutes are spent doing Q and A's where they ask me questions. Yeah. And then there's a private linkedin group. So in between the classes, if they're working on the stuff we covered in class, it can feedback from each other, get feedback from me in a private linkedin group.

JA: Okay. It's kind of split between teaching and then the Q and a portion. So with the homework, I'm just curious, do you find that, is that something that people are doing? Are they taking action? Do you find that, you know what I'm asking here.

KT: What's wild is that the people who do the homework then leave. They land jobs and they get what they need. Right. The people who don't do the homework are the people that are giving me recurring income.

JA: Right, right. Super surprising.

KT: No. Or, and this is why I started another class, is that a bunch of people subscribe cause they're career coaches and they want to know what I'm doing. So a lot of them are just there to learn.

JA: I call them the double o sevens. That's how I label them.

KT: Yeah. Yeah. That's a danger of like that one is $42 a month. So, but like $21 a class, like it seems pretty good for what they get, you know, and then I do bonuses like I did a program, it's called Resume, which is like a one month course where you write your resume with me and I offered that one for free to anyone who's in the masterclass. So if I build bigger courses, they get it as a bonus.

JA: I love that you, these different formats, right? You have the self paced career mapping, the class, you have the monthly subscription, which is kind of a hybrid program. You know, there's information they do on their own and then there's the guided portion and then you have this, the resume sounds like it's almost like a bootcamp accelerator style. Where there's a finite amount of time, we're going to get this thing done. Well, what's your favorite that you enjoyed teaching? In which one? Which format do you find to be most successful for learners?

KT: Oh Man. I think the Resume like I think signing up and knowing you have a certain amount of time works really well. Yeah, in that one it's three recorded classes where I break down different things and then every day they get an email prompt of what to do. Right. So it might be like right and everything you can do in like 20 minutes or less a day. And people hate writing resumes. So I'm trying to make it fun. I like, they don't think they can do it. It's not fun. I make it like you're loving yourself by writing this thing, right? Cause all stories, you're celebrating your most awesome bits. You're highlighting it. Right. So they get daily bits and then in addition to that, and I run it like on a monthly basis, I do two live calls where they can show me their resumes and get feedback.

So that class is amazing. You get the classes, you get daily prompts and then the feedback, you cover all the bases of what people need. Right. And Accountability. And they have to finish it. Right? To get the feedback. So they're motivated because it's $97 for that course or it's 175 for me to review your resume. So if they finish it within the course, they get it really for free. So --

JA: No, I love that. One of the things that I talked about, I don't know if you know Justin Jackson, he's also a Canadian. But he and I had a conversation about the fact that with a lot of self paced courses especially, there's no consequence the not doing the work. And you know, one of the things that I see happening with online courses in the entrepreneurial arena is people are starting to realize that they have courses and they might be making money but people aren't doing the work.

And part of that, I think we're learning from the academic model is there needs to be some type of stake, some type of consequence. So the way that you've done it is really it more of a positive reinforcement of do this work and you're going to save money because otherwise you would pay me x amount to review your resume instead of saying, you know, I've just looked at a different model where it's a bootcamp style and on the website, I mean it was okay for me, but it was just a different tone. Just like, you know, if you missed two assignments you get kicked out. Just ... I love that as instructors online we are leveling up and saying, you know what, it's not just about paying me money. I want you to get the result. And that's absolutely right up my alley.

KT: Yeah. At that resume program people land jobs all the time with it. Yeah. So I think I love it cause it's, it's fun. I'm doing it alongside, I get to like, you know, give them feedback and then they're getting like a result that they wanted. Right. And then I am immediately like, yeah, I have an interview prep. You've got an interview. Right? So I feel like I'd like to do, do it the same with interviews. I think it'd have to be smaller though. Like self led, like learn this and then come and practice with me and the group. I think that would be incredible way to learn and hone your interview skills too.

JA: Yeah, interviewing is definitely a skill. Yeah.

KT: Oh goodness. We could talk the hours.

KT: I get upset when people, cause I know and you probably talked to people all the time, but I get upset when people who don't understand learning theory or education build a class and think that it's just about sharing information. Because I'm like, no it's not. I think you're setting your students up to fail and they aren't blaming the poor way you set up the class. They're blaming themselves. Right. Because there's something, yeah, like I bought and it didn't work and it's not them. It's that you didn't build something that works. So that, it really annoys me that --

JA: Okay, I'm not the only one. Well it's true. And I also think that, well, it's because of a lot of reasons. If we're frank, it's because there's quite a few course creators who simply want to make money and they don't care to just to be just blunt about it.

But there's also of course creators who just don't know or they don't understand the value of a thing like learning design, instructional design, and now I think more people are becoming aware and saying, oh, there're strategies and theory and psychology behind all of this, and it's not just throw some information because usually information is not the answer. It's just a very small part of learning.

KT: Yeah. I would say especially in job search, like people do not need their article about what to do or not do on a resume. They just need to like start writing. Right. I think you need to see yourself as a writer again.

JA: Yeah. This has been so fun. Before we get to the final three questions, are there any final insights that you want to share about your course or career mapping?

KT: So most people who listen to your show are course creators?

JA: Either aspiring course creators or they have a course and they're wanting to improve it for their learners.

JA: Yeah. So I think if you're brand new, doing what I did, even if one or two people show up is a great way to kind of test an idea. Like just put it out there. And I think the other thing that I do, again, it's acting, but I go through my course pretending like I'm brand new to it. So like I sign up with like a fake email and then get the greetings and I just go like, and what I'm asking myself is like, how do I feel and where do I no longer want to do the work? And I think that's a really great way to test things or to take other people's courses and then go through it and then note when you lose enthusiasm and what's happening, and then make sure in your courses that you have that that's not happening. Or if you see where they're all dropping off, then let's letting you know, like that's my weak point, right?

KT: Yep, absolutely. It's understanding the journey, I call it the learner journey. You know that path that people are going through and that's why it's so important. When I was getting my degree in instructional design, we had to be aware of constraints and just periods where people are going to have resistance, whether it's environmental or personal or it could be anything, but it could be your information as well.

KT: Yeah, absolutely.

JA: Cool. Yeah. All right, we're down to the final three questions. First one is easy. What is next for you? Anything exciting coming up?

KT: Well, I'm launching a career coach training, which is bigger, like I'm trying to do it more as like a more intense coaching program, so that's going to come in the next couple of months, which feels huge to me. It really claim it because I'm doing really well in the arena I'm in right now. But I think there's a need for it. So yeah, that's what I'm doing next.

JA: It's the Oh, let go of one thing to grab on to something newer. Yeah, I definitely relate. Where can people find out more about you and your work, Kerri?

KT: Oh, well, careerstories.com but also linkedin just search me under my name or Instagram. I'm there, CareerStoriesKerri. Okay. That's where I hang out most.

JA: Yeah. I love how you said, oh, as if, oh me? Yes. Yes. We want to find you. Last one. What is your why? Why do you get up and do this work?

KT: Oh Man. So I did this work because I see so many people who are in -- like just incredibly awesome who could be changing the world and helping others who don't because they don't know how or the systems to land the dream are broken. So I just want to make it like so that everyone sees their own awesome and they can do it. I think if everyone in the world was doing work that they loved, that, like fed their soul and use their very favorite talents, I don't think we'd have any problems. I agree we'd stop hurting ourselves and hurting other people and hurting the planet because we would be so fulfilled in mastering our work and I think there's a role for everyone.

JA: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I agree. Thank you so much. This has been so fun. I feel like I learned a ton and I know that people are just going to resonate with everything that you're teaching and sharing, so thank you and only for being on the show, but just for doing this work.

KT: Aw, thank you. It's so good. It's so great to be here. Thanks for asking smart questions.

JA: I do the best I can.


JA: I sincerely hope that you did because I had so much fun talking with her and I learned a lot. You know, I feel like I learned in every interview, but there were a couple moments where I just, I don't know, Carrie taught me something that I felt like, wow, okay. I never thought about it like that and I love when that happens. I hope that that happened for you as well.

If you are looking for the show notes, you can find them zencourses.co/104 for episode 104. You will find a recap plus a link to check out Kerry's work and courses and once again that is zencourses.co/104.

Let's talk about the bonus segment because it was a good one. As you know, if you listened to the whole interview, she is a rock star when it comes to LinkedIn and I admittedly don't even think about LinkedIn when it comes to marketing and growing my audience and she has managed to use LinkedIn as an amazing marketing channel so we dig deep into how she does that and she shares some practical tips for you to get started. If you're thinking Linkedin? What, what, what? What do I do? Like I was so if you want to listen to that bonus segment and get those practical tips and maybe start using linkedin as a marketing channel for your business, I highly recommend grabbing the bonus segment.

You can get it by texting extra, extra to the number 44222. Once again, text extra, extra to the number 44222. Or if you're in front of your computer, simply head over to get.zencourses.co/extra. Once again, get.zencourses.co/extra. You'll get a link to listen to the bonus segment and you'll get access to all of the previous bonus segments. All right, that is my time. As always, thank you for hanging out with me for another episode. I am Janelle and this has been Level Up Your Course.

JA: Before you can level up your course, you must first level up your mind. As always, thank you for hanging out with me for another great episode. I do not take it for granted. I am Janelle Allen and this has been level up your course Peace.

Episode Highlights

00:59 Getting to know Kerri Twigg, Rapid Five Questions

04:11 Kerri's career and business journey

15:41 How Kerri incorporated the teaching component to the course

17:59 Kerri's different class offers

19:09 The genesis of the Career Mapping Masterclass

21:55 How Kerri grew her business and made 400 sign ups

23:52 Building Career Mapping Masterclass and challenges Kerri faced

26:46 When and why did the monthly offer came about? 

27:47 Course structure of Career Mapping Masterclass

30:06 The "Resume" program 

35:11 Kerri's advice for course creators

36:48 Exciting things coming up from Kerri

37:26 Find out more about Kerri (website & social media links)

Connect with Kerri

Enjoy this episode?

Join us in the bonus segment! It’s a great conversation about how Kerri leveraged LinkedIn as a marketing channel to grow her business, plus some practical tips to try it for yourself.

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