It takes courage to build a business you believe in ... and not just do what everyone else is doing.
— Lisa Princic

Episode Summary

What’s up everyone! In this episode, I’m joined by Lisa Princic, a coach and business strategist who is here to share her business journey and her workshop, Position Your Mastery.

Lisa believes in being true to yourself and building a profitable business that fulfills you. Her Position Your Mastery workshop helps business owners who are struggling to make consistent income, figuring out their ideal clients, and building a noticeable brand. 

Tune in to hear Lisa and I discuss how to build a brand that matters, how to grow without feeling isolated, and the benefits of creating an active community. We also dig into how Position Your Mastery helps learners develop the business they want, and why workshops are a great precursor to courses. Enjoy!

+ Episode Transcript

Lisa Pricnic: I've got a really good brand positioning and it's clear who I help, what I stand for, who I am for, and that really stands out. So if I can attract someone who doesn't know me from anyone else to trust me enough, then I believe that's a really important thing and I think a lot of people miss that step of having the messaging and the positioning that actually speaks to the person who they want to attract.

Janelle Allen: Welcome to level up your course where we pull back the curtain on what it takes to create learning that transforms lives. You will hear stories from business owners like you who share their success and their struggles. This is not where you come to hear passive income myths, friend. This is where you learn the truth about building a profitable learning platform. I am your host, Janelle Allen, and this is today's episode.

JA: What's up everyone? Today I am speaking with Lisa Princic, a business strategist and mentor. Lisa is also the creator of Position Your Mastery, a workshop for business owners who need to clarify their brand positioning and we don't get a chance to talk about workshops a lot on this podcast, so I'm really excited to get into that. We're going to dig into her workshop, find out what she has learned and talk about her business journey. So let's get started. Lisa, welcome to the show.

LP: Thanks Janelle. I am super excited to be here and have this conversation with you.

JA: Yeah, you know we had a really great chat last week and I am looking forward to this. It's kind of a continuum cause we just, we had a very real conversation about business and learning and teaching and all of that stuff. So this is going to be a different kind of interview than usual but in a good way. So I like to kick things off with the rapid five. I've got five quick questions to help listeners get to know you. Ready? Alright, number one is easy. What did you have for breakfast?

LP: I had steel cut oats with a ton of raw cacao powder, a piece of actual dark chocolate, a couple strawberries and a bit of yogurt.

JA: I am also a big fan of dark chocolate in the morning. I don't think I've revealed that about myself on the show, so I'm sharing as well. It's a great way to start. All right, number two, what is the last album that you bought or listened to?

LP: Well, I listen to Spotify, so I don't know if that's like -- and I have to say like I've been starting to dive back into the classics because you know, the eighties are really popular like for the third time since the 80s and I hear music everywhere played by people who are much younger than me. And I'm like -- so I'm diving back into that kind of stuff, like the classic Steve Perry and all that good stuff. And even like -- who did I get onto the other day? Anyways, it was just some other old rock band. So I'm kind of getting into that stuff.

JA: Okay.

LP: Again, yeah, it's psych-up music and I need that. Oh, Van Halen! Yeah, Van Halen. Old, classic, like, 1982 classic rock.

JA: Yeah. Good stuff. Okay. Number three. This is a very serious question and I want you to take your time with it cause you gotta really think about this one Zombie apocalypse has hit and you have six minutes to grab three things, essential items to get you through. What do you pick?

LP: Okay, so I'd probably grab a knife. I'm going to be really practical here. I'd probably grab, oh, a rain jacket, ‘cause it gets cold around here. And a really good pair of shoes.

JA: Going to be doing a lot of running.

LP: I don't know. That's a good one. I mean three things is tough, but yeah, I'd probably just go for survival stuff.

JA: I like that. I like that. Okay, so we can be friends during the Zombie apocalypse.

LP: Yes, I know, right? Practical people.

JA: Yeah. None of the people who were like, yeah, I'm gonna grab my airpods and my iPad. I'm like, yeah, no we're not gonna… All right, number four, if you were not doing the work you're doing now, what would you be doing?

LP: Oh, that's an interesting question. Cause every once in a while, you know, as an entrepreneur you think about like, should I just get a like a really awesome job somewhere? Oh, I'd like to think that I'd be doing something in marketing in a company that gave me a lot of freedom to explore brand positioning and all the different channels of marketing and help companies sort of streamline it. So I could do that for one company I, that would be really fun for me actually. Yeah.

JA: Okay, cool.

LP: Not very different than I am now, but I'm really into what I'm doing right now. So of course I'm not quite thinking about something totally different because I'm way too in my group at the moment.

JA: Gotcha, Gotcha. That's a good thing. All right, last one. What is the hardest lesson you have learned as an entrepreneur so far?

LP: Oh, yikes. The hardest lesson is the long game, I think. For some reason I'm an action taker. I'm a bit impatient. I'm not a workaholic though. So that's an interesting combination because while I want things to happen quickly and I'm willing to do things quickly, I'm not at work around the clock to make it happen person. So it's been really hard to understand that I may make the first goal I wanted, oh I want to make $5,000 a month in my business.

Like the first thing I did when I became a life coach and didn't even know what a business was, that took years, you know? So I think that not everyone has, there's no pace, there's no like typical five years, 10 years, one year, it can be anything. And understanding that it doesn't actually matter as long as you enjoy it and you know that you're happy to get your goals when you get your goals. Yeah. So that was like the weirdest, the thing that I kind of get from like a life perspective, but in my business day to day, you know, when you find yourself beating yourself up or feeling frustrated, it can come down to the perspective issue of like, I want it now. As opposed to, that's just not a good attitude in life. Like wanting things now and actually being disappointed when they don't happen is challenging.

JA: Yeah, I think that's a great segue into just talking about your entrepreneurial journey, but also I love that so much because something I've been thinking about lately is just pace and maybe we talked about this last week, but recognizing and appreciating your own pace instead of judging your pace against someone else's and kind of wanting your experience in your pacing to be in alignment with what somebody else was doing. So that is a powerful lesson and I feel like when you get it, whether it says an entrepreneur, but just in life period, when you get that and you start saying, okay, this is me, you know, this is my life, this is how things should go. It really transforms you.

LP: Totally. It's like you accept the now and you find out really who you are. And I also realized that getting there is never going to make you more happy. Like, yeah, I know that we can get all that stuff philosophically, but to actually put it into practice and actually change the way we enjoy our day because of it is a harder step.

JA: Yeah.

LP: But that's the key to being fulfilled. And the key to actually doing this thing called life that we really want to all just be like happy and joyful and just enjoying it. Then that really at the end of that day we want to have had a good day. We've got to get that, we've got to somehow find a way to get that and it'll come and all kinds of different ways. I think for me it's like kind of getting to like -- my son is getting older. I mean he's still only just almost eight, but I'm kind of getting older and I'm like, I've got this thing. Like I don't want to just chase towards the end, you know? Like I don't want to wish anything away anymore. So I think that's been a bit of a, a way that I've been looking at like watching people chase, chase, chase, and then, what, are they finally hit like 80 and go, oh well I'm glad I rushed to get here? You know? So I think that's where it's really allowed me to sink in and not be like, oh, whatever, it'll just be the future, but I just want this goal, I want this goal. You know, you can't, you can't. Yeah. It will happen, twenty years will go by.

JA: And you know, the thing is there is no end. And that's the misconception. A lot of people I have, I follow a fitness guy, his name is Luka Hocevar and he just had a post that was very similar to what we're talking about on the same topic. He said, you know, when he started in the fitness industry, he thought, and this was, he's talking about like 20 years ago, okay, I'm going to do this. You know, I'm going to go hard for like five years, then I'm going to sell it and then I'm not going to have to do anything again. And he realized of course that that was not only naive, but --

LP: Yeah.

JA: -- that there is no end. And in fact the whole point and, and joy is when you begin to do something that you love and also enjoy the journey, enjoy the lessons, enjoy all of that. And that's what changes you. So I think that's, you know, we're really going deep on this, but I think it's a valuable thing. A lot of people fall in love with the end result instead of enjoying the process.

LP: Right? And you actually can get those goals when you start enjoying your day to day. So switching up how you do your business and how you spend your time, whether it's doing the actual delivering of the service that you deliver to somebody or the way that you enroll them into what you do or how you do your marketing. So for example, marketing for me is connection to real people, live. I much prefer to have a one on one conversation with someone and it can be through a podcast. It can also just be a networking call. And when I didn’t do that in my business for years because I somehow forgot to transfer that from my kind of live networking world, like in person world to the online world, then I, I really kind of fizzled because I couldn't keep my inspiration going because I didn't meet my peers. I didn't make, yeah, business friends who were at the same level because you know, through meeting people, some really stick and great longer term relationships and I sort of left that out. So if you can realize how important it is to enjoy it, you'll probably will get to where you want it to go without even being obsessed with it. You'll just start getting there.

JA: Yeah. Okay. So we're already giving a ton of valuable takeaway. So if you were listening to that, you know, just keep going. Don't focus on the end, enjoy your day to day as Lisa said, and do the things that bring you joy. I think that's another one that I took out of what you said and also something that has been resonating with me. Hone in on the joy and focus on that. If there's something that you used to do that brought you joy and that's fallen out of your business, see if you can bring that back. Yeah. Okay. So let's get into your entrepreneurial journey. How did you get here? How did you get to, you know, Lisa, the business strategists? Where did you start?

LP: Well, I started after finding myself for a year, I was exploring just everything and doing lots of meditation retreats. So I was kind of trying to still find myself in the world. Like I really did that first. I did that before I started even focusing on career of any kind. And I would always take like go and have a job for a few years and then quit and then take time off and go travel. So I mean my journey, I was a late bloomer when it comes to entrepreneurship. Yeah. So I started as a life coach. I just thought, well I want a life of freedom, of course. So I kind of chased the lifestyle business, the esoteric thing that we are not sure exactly exist and then became a life coach but had no idea what I was doing as a business owner. You know, I threw up a newsletter, I took some action.

I was like, Oh, I'm going to put everyone on a list. Then when you could, and started putting out things and then had friends that wanted to work with me and that kind of slowly grew. But I think because I didn't really, how about long term plan or, and I didn't really have a clear idea of what I was doing. I mean I gained a skill set that was really fun, but I didn't really understand the business part of it. I didn't understand what a value proposition is that there's this the thing that you deliver and you have to pry into that value of what that actually is. So it's easy to describe and then the other person has to be like, that's worth the money that I'm going to give you to get that value that you're going to give me. And that idea, I didn't really understand that for years.

So I dabbled a lot and then decided I really, one had to niche because, or niche as they say -- I'm Canadian, I get to say niche and so dabbled in that for a long time and decided I needed to niche. And so I got excited about business because I'd spent a lot of time with social impact entrepreneurs and I hung around with them a lot. I wasn't one but I was kind of working in a small nonprofit and we were helping, you know, to help businesses that have an a social impact mandate to grow larger and gain more support. So that was fun. I loved the environment but I actually was like, hmm, I don't think I'm an entrepreneur ‘cause these people are crazy. I heard stories of like big businesses in that sort of like, you know, organic and all that world that had been around for a long time of the stuff they've done.

Like I was at the conferences, like the small little venues on like Gulf islands off the coast of BC, listening to big business leaders like seventh generation. You know, all these people talk about their stories and they were like the things they had to do. Like one guy had to milk cows for his yogurt company, you know, it was just crazy and I thought I can't do that. So I still find myself drawn towards it because now I'm often the person that's drawn to the thing that I first think that I can’t do. And then so I decided I was going to be a business coach and I didn't have a ton of real experience helping businesses grow. So that was another kind of weird step that I took. When you know whatyou want to be, but you don't have necessarily the skill set for it, it's an interesting a place that had I gone out and done something like instead of being a coach exclusively had I gone and got a real tangible skillset in business, that probably would have been a better move to do. So that's one of my little mistakes.

JA: Yeah. Interesting.

LP: You know, is not having a tangible, because a coaching position or when you get into business has to come with some level of like, I know how to take you from a to B in this area. Right? And if you don't, actually you can, if it's like web design or copywriting or something that's clear and more specific, that's still a really great way to deliver value. That's clear of what that is and then can become referred and all that. But otherwise, if you're going to be coach that's based on all your life, business experience and life experience and successes that you've created, then that's a different thing. And I didn't really have that.

JA: I want to dig into that really quickly.

LP: Okay.

JA: Because I think that that will resonate with a lot of people. What I heard is, you know, as far as your journey, you dabbled a bit, you know, you were in and out and then you said, okay, I'm gonna pursue this thing. But then you got to a place, I love this because it's just like the up and down of entrepreneurship, right? Yeah. So then you got to a place where you said, I'm going to do this. I don't really think I'm an entrepreneur. I'm looking around and I don't see anybody who I can connect with. I don't see myself in anyone. These people are crazy, as you said, and then you decided what it was that you wanted to do, but felt that you didn't have the experience. You know, some people call that feeling like an imposter or imposter syndrome, but you did it anyway. So talk about that. How did you transition to doing it and you know, maybe getting your first clients and then we'll get into talking about your workshop later.

LP: I guess I had some clients who when I first became a life coach that were in the business, small business or nonprofit space. So I did have that, a little bit of experience. So I had some wins. I helped people start some things and that are still up and running today. So I did have a bit of experience, but there was still this feeling of like imposter syndrome, you know, like in a way because I wasn't clear of my role. I think I wanted to have a bigger impact than I could have. So I think part of it is the own feeling we have of, well, here's what I really want to be involved with. I'm not there yet. So instead of finding the step that would get me there, I flailed, you know, I'd be like good clients, not enough clients, you know, it was slow. I also had a baby in there, so. And he didn't sleep a lot. So whether there was a tough few years of actual, not my brain, like not working as well, like sleep deprivation. So I think that I wasn't in the game. I was kind of half in and half out. So I was still only ever doing this, but I didn't really figure out what was the solution to my problems. I wasn't like a dog to a bone and going like, what do I need to do?

JA: Yeah, there's two c words -- you said like you didn't commit yet.

LP: No. Yeah, you're right. I wasn't 100% in. I don't think I could, I didn't think I had the belief that it would work. I don't know what it was. I just didn't, but I also never gave up, which is kind of interesting as well because I'm a very truth oriented person. Like it's part of my personality and it's also just like I've done all this like vipassana meditation where you sit for 10 days and do nothing but think and try not to think. And you kind of get to the core of like what's real to you. And when I'm the kind of person who I guess I know what I want to do, I don't let myself off the hook either. So it's a little bit of purgatory, you know, where kind of torturing yourself because I'm like, I know I want to do this thing in business and I know that it's my personality because I also love psychology.

So you know, marketing is a lot about, because psychology, like I enjoy copywriting. I love prying out what people desire. And to me it's just like businesses is this the whole, what do we want out of life and yet how do we be involved with that by selling things that get people closer to what they want in life. It's just so fun for me. I was pretty determined but then I wasn't really doing it the right way. I wasn't learning the things. So anyways, so finally in 2015 I got trained as a business strategist under a Tara McMullin and finally got some templates and got some training to like create certain results. And that was like, oh. Cause sometimes I like creating my own templates, but I also don't mind having other people create templates and me put them together in my stuff because it's just, yeah, when you don't have a lot of time, you've got a kid, you know, baby, it's hard to just stay up all night and create, create. So that really helped me. So getting the training, like getting the skill set I needed to be the person that I wanted it to be like are the, I'd say them entrepreneur I wanted to be was huge. Yeah. So it wasn't just like learning from someone do these things. I actually was learning how to teach these things to my clients.

JA: And it was the next level of commitment and I love that. So I said there were two c words that stood out when you were speaking earlier. Commit and also clarity. You said you weren't clear on what it is you wanted and that's so huge. That is so huge because I know that a lot of people struggle with that. I get emails all the time. I don't know what I want to teach. I don't know what I should create. And you know, part of that is putting yourself out there, right? There's a lot of people who I know are listening. I know you're there and you want to create a course, but you have not put yourself out there yet. You haven't committed. You have to get your site up. You have to start talking to people. That doesn't sound like where you were. But that level of commitment, taking it to the next step and enrolling in that training program. And Tara is great. She's been on the show, I think it was episode 26 so much knowledge there so much. That sounds like it was the key that unlocked some things for you.

LP: Well, and I love buying from people who are really smart and there almost not more academic than marketers, but they really are like, love their methodologies. They spend time thinking about them. They really love change. So their end goal isn't, oh, I need to make this income goal. Like it is. Obviously they have income goals, but I don't think they're driven by just, oh, how many people can I sell into this course? They're driven by teaching the thing that it's going to really help impact people and have everyone walk away satisfied or most of them able to implement what they're teaching. So that's always who I'm drawn to. And so yeah, it was a great experience because it was just good tools.

JA: Yeah.

LP: And a model, someone doing what I wanted to do --

JA: Which is so important. It is so important to have models and representation. So I've just recently hired my first business coach this year after thinking, you know, after like, I don't know, I'll figure it out, you know? But it's so good to just the simplest thing of having someone to hear you out and say, yeah, no, I don't think that's the way you want to go. Or, okay, sounds like a good idea. You know? It's so, so valuable. Okay. So I want to put some timelines around here because we're about to talk about your workshop. What is the timeline that we're looking at for when you made that commitment? You took the program and then you know, you, went all in on your business.

LP: I'm going to be really honest. I didn't think that I finally, I think that it's been like a year. I think it's been eight months since I've hundred percent went in and felt like there's no holding back.

I've had moments of that, but I was never able to sustain it because I was trying different tactics. I'd have like Feast or famine times, you know, where I get a whole bunch of leads and then I kinda stopped marketing for a while and just coast and, and I also do a lot of parenting so I have restrictions on my schedule and I also like to be fit and do outdoors-y things. And I also how I wanted a lifestyle. So I tried to fit in travel once in a while, but I think it was like literally this like all like 2018 where I decided that I am going for gold. I am like all focus on business and it doesn't mean I'd work tons still, but I know what I want. I feel confident, I feel that I'm doing all the right things. And I decided to launch a podcast, which is like, you know, a super longterm commitment, especially when you start out like you produce this thing every week for like a year at least without a break.

JA: It’s fun though!

LP: Oh, it's super fun. And I love the people I meet, but it's still eight hours a week that if you're only working like 28 that's a commitment. Do you want to get something out of it? Like you want it to grow your following and your connections with people because with that much work it needs to produce some kind of results at the end.

JA: Definitely. So that's your primary marketing channel. So about eight months ago you went all in, you said, I'm going for gold. You started your podcast. So let's talk about the workshop Position.Your mastery. When did you launch that for the first time?

LP: I think I just did my first one last month.

JA: Okay. So tell me about the workshop. What is it about and who is it for?

LP: : So position your mastery is a workshop for business owners who are struggling with making the consistent income like there not exactly sure who their ideal client is.

They haven't got the messaging on their website that attracts the ideal a client they know, they haven't really put effort into that. So they're positioning their unique value, who they're for and helping the world see what they're all about. So a lot of people don't do that work, right? They throw up the website and then they start marketing. But the thing is is I've had so much success, I'll tell you where most actually most of my leads in the past have come from is organic search on Google for business coach, and then they find me and they call me. And then about half the people I talked to sign up for me right away. Yeah. And that's because I've got a really good brand positioning and it's clear who I help, what I stand for, who I'm for, and that really stands out. So if I can attract someone who doesn't know me from anyone else to trust me enough, then I believe that's a really important thing. And I think a lot of people miss that step of having the messaging and the positioning that actually speaks to the person who they want to attract.

JA: It's so important, and we're going to come back and talk about this in the bonus segment. That positioning is so important and it's something, I don't know if you're familiar with Philip Morgan. He was the first person who I encountered who was talking about positioning. I didn't know what it is. And now, you know, afterwards I realized that there's books on it and all types of stuff. But a lot of people who are starting out are afraid to take that stand and say this is who I help and this is what I do.

LP: I know.

JA: It's a scarcity mindset of I'm losing out on business, I'm going to alienate business. So I want to come back and talk about that in the bonus.

LP: Yeah, that was my nine year problem. So I'm just going to admit that I've had the same nine year issue.

JA: Yeah. Yeah. So we're going to dig into that and how to get out of that and why you should get out of that. So definitely check out the bonus if you want to learn more about that. Alright, so the workshop, you've taught it for the first time about a month ago.

LP: Yeah.

JA: We talked about who it helps. So consultants, anyone who's struggling with their positioning.

LP: Any service based entrepreneur. And the other thing I encourage them to do, I'll just quickly mention this, is develop their signature service. So I'm really start to think about what's that thing you start to do over and over again --

JA: Yeah.

LP: -- the workshop. It's leading towards the course potential if that's where you want to go.

JA: Absolutely. Okay, so we've got this workshop position. Your mastery, was this something that your audience was asking for or why did you create it? What was the motivation? The impetus for creating this.

LP: The impetus for it was my own understanding of how I could create momentum and community for my clients because I realized that by not having a group offer or at a place where people can then converge, even afterwards, like I, actually had my workshop, I had four people in it, and at the end of it I would just that night I was like, I'm going to create a Facebook group because I feel like their work is continuing. Like they just can't write website messaging in one day. So I was like, no, I'm here for them. I want this community people to keep working on the things that they're working on. They're people who I have worked with before or were drawn to me for whatever reason and they're like minded and I thought, no, I want a place for them to stay in touch and stay supported.

And I realized because I offer the same workshop in a business design session privately and I realized that like if I keep doing that, that's great, but it's not necessarily creating any momentum and it's not even creating brand recognition for me. If I just offer one off things and I've spent years not having a real community or I would say brand, not brand recognition, but it's like you can go out and market market market and be on Instagram all day long and not create any relationships. Right?

JA: Yeah.

LP: And not create community and continued and sometimes when you create a community of people who know each other because of you, that's a really strong way to create organic momentum.

JA: No, absolutely. And community is so powerful. That was one of my lessons last year. It is what I call the x factor for not just online courses, but for your business. It can be challenging to figure it out, but I think the first step is exactly what you did. Create some place online for your audience to hang out and to learn from you.

LP: And for me it doesn't feel like it'll work as well. And I've done groups before that are just based on, Oh, join my group, we'll talk about these things. And you know, some are really big and have grown online. Sometimes they're successful for the person who started it and sometimes they're not. But I feel like I'm just one of those high standards people. Like I want to create a community based on people who have been engaged with me. They've worked with me and they get what I'm talking about. I actually feel like I can give to those people with a lot more intention about what they actually are interested in because they've signed up for something. Than if it was just a whole bunch of people, I said, Oh, join my group. You like my page, join this or you listen to my podcast, join this group.

Because it's not super focused and I think it's challenging too. Deliver to people, very strategic stuff if it's not focused, because it's not going to be just all because my personality is showing up in, I don't know, being cheery every day. Like it's really, I want them to learn stuff. So it has to be I think specific. So I feel like that's a better way for me to continue to add value. And that's actually kind of, I think the way Tara did it, like she had her quiet power strategy community that she doesn't have the same way anymore. But she kept like every time he took a programmer, anyone who took one of her programs when she was running these big programs all got included in this group. And this community was like all past clients and they were all super fans. Yeah. And it wasn't massive to start, you know, it probably started by like 10 and 20 and 30 but it was really based on a deep level of respect. And I think, you know, when I talked about being attracted to other certain kinds of business models or how we want to show up every day, I'd rather serve four by four people. Then try to bring 400 and and have it be like, I don't, no, why I want to post this because I can't even think of the person who I want to share this with. Whereas when I actually think about, oh these two people need to hear this.

JA: Yeah. You know, one of the things that I tell my clients, my best clients have active, engaged communities and sometimes we think about having, you know, whether it's a Facebook group or a slack channel or some people are using Mighty Networks or a forum, it doesn't matter, whatever it is. Some people think about community in terms of you can think about it and as in terms of marketing to your fans or some people just think it's something, oh, I have to have this. But from a learning perspective, it is a fantastic opportunity for informal learning to occur. You know, that social aspect of people coming in with a question and then someone who's figured that out or can chime in and it's beautiful when that starts to happen, when you start to see people helping each other and building those relationships, that's where the magic happens, which is why I call it the X factor.

LP: Yeah, that's exactly it. That's the thing that starts to make it kind of grow or have a bit of life or seem like it's worth continuing because when they've learned something from you and then a month goes by and you're saying, well, what do you guys want to get on a call or, and find out where you're at? They're interested in this thing they started working on, and so getting follow-up support and help and even asking a question is going to be in their zone of focus at this moment.

JA: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. All right, so let's talk about the workshop. I know you run it live, so just for anyone listening, this is a live workshop that you ran. Tell me about the structure. How is it structured and organized?

LP: So that is going to be, I'm going to tell you a work in progress. I did like a four and a half hour workshop where I had sort of three sections, like an intro, the signature service part and then the messaging your mastery part. So I had those two main sections with the intro, the little break in between a lot of worksheets that they kind of started on while we were working in the group. So I gave them some working time. Like 10 minutes to fill something out so they can get to the next level. Cause I'm walking them through pretty hands on. It's not simple. And it was actually just speaking to somebody yesterday about it who does a lot of workshops and she's like, well can you break it up? I'm like, no, cause this is the whole thing that has to go together. Like this isn't all the things I teach. Like I don't get into marketing at all in this. I just get into the positioning and the offer part. Like how do you begin to grow something that has the potential to be more easily marketed? So I've got to keep it, but it did still feel like a lot of stuff. So I think that I may consider, and actually this would be an interesting feedback from you breaking it up into either like a three hour a day and then the next day, a three hour a day, maybe like a Friday, Saturday or like do it on a Wednesday and then a week later do the second part on the Wednesday.

So there is a working piece in the middle and there is some real sense of completion. Like one area gets to be totally full and finished.

JA: Yeah.

LP: So that they can leave with a little bit more finished. Because I, you can't write copy for a website overnight. You can't, like you can figure out your ideal client fairly quickly, but, and then mapping out your signature framework of how you take your clients from a, when they're in pain and they're struggling to this point B, the transformation that you deliver. That's big. And I believe in giving people shorter times or else we overthink it, doubt at all and then throw it out.

JA: I think the trick with workshops is you are teaching and trying to create space for people to implement in the same time. And that's why it feels tricky because you're absolutely right. Your learners feel best when they've accomplished something in the session and they can leave and say, okay, I got something done that has been on my list or something I've been struggling with for so long.

It doesn't feel as good when you're just in presentation mode and I'm as a learner just being talked at and then I leave with work to do and figure out on my own. It feels Shitty, right? Let's just be real about it. So that's the challenge of workshops and what I do in my group program, although it's a course and not a workshop, is we have breakout sessions. It's something new that I tried this time and my students absolutely love it because I also use a flipped classroom model, which basically means they do the work beforehand. They know that they come to the session and they were supposed to do x. I don't teach during the session. I say, you know, here's what you need to work on for the session. And then when we come it's more about working together, getting stuff done, answering questions, digging in.

And that seems to be so powerful and has been very well received. So I think the key is figuring out the balance between presenting and the implementation.

LP: I do see that as an interesting model potentially, where I might even record the instruction on how to bring the stuff to the session or give them that teaching in advance because I couldn't just give them the worksheet without explaining why and how.

JA: Yeah.

LP: So yeah, I think that that could be leading more towards a course, even with a real working session. I mean, I don't even care what to, how to categorize it because my big belief is that businesses are successful in the details and the nuances. It's like all these hybrid models. It's like you don't have a course model or a group program model or a workshop model. It's like you can have something that you can’t even tell whether it's call it one or the other, cause it uses all those end components.

Like not to make it complicated or too much media, but just has this way that you do things that isn't so standard and cookie cutter because the cookie cutter stuff doesn't work. Unless you're at this massive scale level. I think when you're scaling to a million and beyond even that people can try the cookie cutters, like the Evergreen Webinar thing and the, you know, Facebook ads and all this stuff. Like everyone follows these models. It doesn't work for everybody in every industry. So I just think that even in an any kind of training or learning or whatever, there's all these different kinds of ways to do it that are slightly different and you have to find your own way.

JA: That's absolutely true. Yeah. Another great segue. So before we get to the final three questions and then go to the bonus, I just want to say that what you said is so true, you have to figure out what works for you because what works for is just goes back to what we talked about with pacing, right?

What works for someone else may not work for you. And the only way to figure that out, newsflash, is to roll up your sleeves and try things and then pay attention to what does work and then do more of that. Right?

LP: And commit.

JA: Yeah, absolutely. Commit. And you have to show up.

LP: And you have to be prepared to show up for the long term. And I think that's the biggest lesson that I've learned. Like this workshop, like I've done other types of workshops and programs, but then I wasn't in love with them. And this one I was like, no, this is actually the thing that I do for All of my clients, like if they don't have the ability to convert, like if their brand messaging and their offers aren't clear and why would anyone want them, but they've got good stuff, then we always have to sort that out first and so because I'm now like that is my thing that I do and this is the most natural thing I do.

This is I will make the format work, but the outcome that I'm focused on delivering the transformation that I am is not going to change, so that's why I will be doing this for years until I get the format exactly down to the final format. It doesn't matter. It's the commitment to doing it over and over again until I figured out all the details.

JA: I love that and that's exactly what it is. So I just want to say this is in the action. Anyone listening who's been a listener for a long time knows that I always say services before courses. What Lisa is doing is exactly that. She pulled something out from her client work that she's doing over and over and over and saying, okay, this is a process that I have down. This is something that every client needs. I'm going to create a product out of it.

That is the best way to launch. A lot of times people want to jump and go straight to a course. Well, and then they say, well, I don't know what to teach. Well, this solves that problem. The other thing I want to say before we get to the final three questions, it's just I love workshops. I love them so much and so if you are just getting started, start with a workshop. Don't worry about creating a huge course right now. If you haven't launched anything, if you're testing out an idea, something that you're doing with clients, turn that process into a workshop and validate whether or not people want it and buy it. That is what I've been teaching in my group program. That's what Lisa is doing. It works. I love workshops.

LP: I know. I think that's great. That's a great plug because they're engaging. You get live in time feedback you get to course correct. You get to actually know what's working, what's not working, and yeah, you get to commit to serving them and loving them up and, and that's like really ultimately what it's about because I think sometimes we're scared to dive into -- so she was a course, it's like, oh, I just want to make money and have people get something and I don't even have to kind of like deal with it. But I think that's kind of this, like the people who create courses and who are really successful find a way to make people really feel loved and served even if they don't have a live one-on-one connection or a one-on-many connection with them. It's because they're doing that anyway. And I don't think you can transfer your engagement from one on one to one to many without stepping through that process because you can't just think of an audience of like 10,000 the same way as one person. That's a gradual process to start thinking that way.

JA: Yeah, I love it. Okay, so we're down to the final three questions before we jump to the bonus segment. First one is easy. What is next for you? Anything exciting coming up?

LP: Well, I've really just changed up my branding a little bit late and so I'm focused on really helping people with this workshop Position Your Mastery. And then eventually I'll do a marketing your mastery workshop that kind of from enough people who've taken that. So that's really helping people get to that. How do you create consistent income if you're not earning that six figure income consistently? It's probably the positioning has not been figured out in as much detail. So I'm really just focused on that for now. And then I've got, you know, other clients who are doing well and they don't have their systems in place.

So then that's the, well let's create your million dollar roadmap. And so I'm kind of excited about the whole million dollar mindset idea of it doesn't matter even if you don't want to earn $1 million, if that's not your big goal. I really think there's something about having $1 million mindset that will help you blow past any goal. So I am kind of excited about that right now.

JA: Yeah, systems are huge for giving you that, the ability to grow, so I love that. So where can people find out more about you and your work Lisa?

LP: My website's at and I've got a couple of cool things on their downloads. I've got my noticeable brand framework, which is just my website, forward slash, Freebie and then I've also got an interesting little influencer outreach checklist, which is all about relationship building because that's again, what I think the first thing everyone needs to do in marketing is meet other people in their industry and develop those relationships. So that's at least at forward slash checklist.

JA: We have to remind ourselves too. I have to remind myself not project to be a human. Talk to people, build relationships, you know? It's so easy to go into your shell.

LP: Yeah.

JA: All right, last question. What is your why? Why do you get up and do this work?

LP: Oh, there's so many things there. I do it because my deepest level, I do believe that entrepreneurs are valuable community citizens. Like, I believe that entrepreneurship is the place where we show up with our values, with our mission, and we have a lot of control over how we do things and not just slot into something else without being ourselves or just going along with the policy in a big corporation. I, we can speak out, we can do the things that we don't feel we can do in another environment. So I do think that it's how the world is a better place when we can show up more real and do our personal work to be able to gain the strength to be successful. We have to deal with a lot of shit and get through it because if you're just struggling all the time, it's really challenging to get the goals. So it kind of forces you into that. And then of course that makes us better people, which you know, if there's a ripple effect and who we affect when we are being more happy and fulfilled and loving ourselves more. So really ultimately like if that's the big reason, I mean other than I think it's super fun playground for me, it's like that's what keeps me excited about like, yeah, I can get into this because it aligns with my values of change and impact. I love it.

JA: Lisa, this has been great. There's just been so many nuggets of wisdom. Thank you so much for sharing your story and your workshop with us.

LP: Thanks for having me.


JA: Hey, hope you enjoyed that interview with Lisa. Lisa, if you're listening, thank you so much for coming on and being so transparent and sharing your journey, your story, what has worked and what hasn't. If you listened to that episode and you want to learn more about Lisa, you can find out how to reach her via the show notes. You can find those over at zencourse dot co Slash One oh two for episode 102 once again. Then of course it's that COO slash one oh two I can't believe we are in the hundreds now. That's just mind blowing. All right. Let's talk about the bonus segment. The interview did not end there. We talked about a few key things that came up in the main portion, but we got deeper into them in the bonus. One of those things is positioning, so if you're not sure what positioning is, how to do it, how Lisa does it. If you want to know more about branding tips and how to market and brand on Facebook, Lisa and I chat about that, we dig deeper into those things. That's her area of expertise, so if that is something that you want to learn about, I highly recommend that you head over to get that. That's slash extra or simply text the word extra, extra, all one word to the number four, four two, two, two. Once again, text extra, extra two, four four two, two, two and you will get a link to listen to the bonus segment and you'll also get access to all of the previous bonus segments. Plus you'll be added to my email list if you're not already on it. All right, that is my time. Remember before you can level up your course, you must first level up your mind. As always. Thanks for hanging out with me for another episode. I am Janell Allen, and this has been level of your course. I'll see you next time.

JA: Before you can level up your course, you must first level up your mind. As always, thank you for hanging out with me for another great episode. I do not take it for granted. I am Janelle Allen and this has been level up your course Peace.

Episode Highlights

01:01 Getting to know Lisa Princic, Rapid 5 Questions

06:11 Why you need to recognize your own pace - "Love the process instead of the end result"

10:58 Lisa's entrepreneurial journey

15:48 How Lisa transitioned from a life coach to a business strategist

23:09 Overview about Lisa's workshop (Position Your Mastery) - who is it for?

26:04 The impetus for creating Position Your Mastery, Benefits of having an active community 

31:13 Position Your Mastery - workshop structure

36:12 Importance of finding a structure that works for you and your clients

38:06 Why do workshops first if you haven’t figured out your course yet

39:36 Exciting things coming up from Lisa, website link

Connect with Lisa

Grab the bonus segment!

Enjoyed this episode? Join us in the bonus segment! It’s a great conversation about positioning, branding, and how to market and brand on Facebook.

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